Could you possibly quote some of the especially hillarious
passages you recall so I can understand at least what you
mean? I remember the Catcher In The Rye chapter in church in
which a former student was speaking about the fine education
he'd received and Holden was commenting on the side as
causing unrestrainable laughter. I never had that sort of
experience with Lolita.
Patrick King
--- Richard Moore <
moorich@aol.com> wrote:
> The periodic debates on the definitions of noir
and
> hard-boiled are
> child's play compared to the endless debates
that
> could be had over
> what is funny and what is not funny. I respect
the
> fact that you do
> not see the humor in Lolita that I recall
enjoying.
> You are welcome
> to join the sizable group who consider me a
little
> weird or, as they
> say downhome in Georgia, "turned funny." I
have
> even been known to
> laugh out loud at irony.
>
> We do agree that Nabokov was a genius.
>
> Richard Moore
>
> --- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Patrick King
> <abrasax93@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > I'm afraid the humor in Lolita was lost to me.
I
> think
> > Nabokov wrote it ironically, because of
the
> hypocracy
> > he saw as an immigrant in US society, but I
don't
> find
> > Lolita funny. Irony is certainly not LOL
humor.
> > Thompson's Recoil is a very ironic novel, as
is
> > Warren's All The King's Men, but neither could
be
> > considered actually funny. I think an
argument
> could
> > be made that Warren's novel is also "noir," but
it
> may
> > go beyond that genre. I think, personally,
that
> Lolita
> > is basically a noir novel composed by a
genius.
> >
> > Patrick
> > --- Richard Moore <moorich@...>
wrote:
> >
> > > My apologies for being absent from this
dialog
> for
> > > days at a time.
> > > It has been many years since I read LOLITA
and
> > > Cain's BUTTERFLY--
> > > long enough that I don't feel comfortable
being
> > > hard-over on this.
> > > My memory is that BUTTERFLY was more noir
or
> > > near-noir than LOLITA.
> > > I do not believe that every novel wherein
the
> male
> > > lead is lured to
> > > his doom by a female (regardless of age)
is
> noir.
> > >
> > > Jailbait novels were relatively common in
the
> first
> > > few decades of
> > > paperbacks. Some, such as several by
Gil
> Brewer,
> > > were noir. Many
> > > others were backwoods comedy romps trying
to
> catch
> > > the Tobacco Road
> > > audience and I wouldn't consider them
noir
> novels.
> > >
> > > Perhaps my problem is that I have
trouble
> labeling a
> > > funny novel
> > > Noir. As I recall it, LOLITA is a very
funny
> novel.
> > >
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I do believe a novel
can be
> both
> > > hardboiled and
> > > funny.
> > >
> > > Just today I began reading a very funny
novel I
> > > learned about
> > > through Keith Roberts' memoir (of sorts)
LEMADY.
>
> > > The book is DON'T
> > > POINT THAT THING AT ME by Kyril
Bonfiglioli and
> it
> > > manages to be
> > > both tough and very, very
funny.
> > >
> > > Richard Moore
> > >
> > > --- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "E. Borgers"
> > > <webeurop@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree with Patrick.
> > > > Especially for "Buttefly" which is
really
> noir.
> > > > Confusion here is that a lot of
the
> "speakers"
> > > consider noir as
> > > as sub-genre or a sub-sub-genre,
of
> mystery/crime
> > > lit. It's not.
> > > > Noir is wider than mystrery lit, and
as I
> > > advocated it here many
> > > times, HB is just one of the sub-genre
it
> included.
> > > > Noir covers parts of gen lit,
mystery,
> > > humor...the list is long.
> > > >
> > > > A little bit as in the mathematical
theory
> of
> > > sets: it contains
> > > sub-sets and intersects with other sets
(genres
> or
> > > type of lit) than
> > > mystery/crime.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of the origins, archaic
forms, noir
> and
> > > mystery/crime
> > > lived togheter and influenced one another
all
> along
> > > the way.
> > > > Even starting with the
Bible...
> > > >
> > > > E.Borgers
> > > > POLAR NOIR
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/polarnoir
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Patrick King <abrasax93@> a 飲it
:
> > > > Thanks for your response, but
why
> don't
> > > you consider
> > > > Lolita inparticular, and nymphette
novels in
> > > general,
> > > > noir novels? What other genre do they
fall
> under?
> > > It's
> > > > the same problem that involves many
other noir
> > > novels:
> > > > the anti-hero falling under the sway
of a
> female,
> > > > leading to his downfall. The only
real
> difference
> > > is
> > > > that the female is under
18-years-old, adding
> > > another
> > > > demention to the level of obsession
and to the
> > > > darkness of the story. Cain's
Butterfly is
> > > essentially
> > > > this same problem, isn't it? Would
you not
> > > consider
> > > > Butterfly a noir novel?
> > > >
> > > > Patrick King
> > > > --- Richard Moore <moorich@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I admire Nobokov's LOLITA but do
not
> consider it
> > > a
> > > > > noir novel.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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