The periodic debates on the definitions of noir and
hard-boiled are child's play compared to the endless debates
that could be had over what is funny and what is not funny. I
respect the fact that you do not see the humor in Lolita that
I recall enjoying. You are welcome to join the sizable group
who consider me a little weird or, as they say downhome in
Georgia, "turned funny." I have even been known to laugh out
loud at irony.
We do agree that Nabokov was a genius.
Richard Moore
--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Patrick King
<abrasax93@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> I'm afraid the humor in Lolita was lost to me. I
think
> Nabokov wrote it ironically, because of the
hypocracy
> he saw as an immigrant in US society, but I don't
find
> Lolita funny. Irony is certainly not LOL
humor.
> Thompson's Recoil is a very ironic novel, as
is
> Warren's All The King's Men, but neither could
be
> considered actually funny. I think an argument
could
> be made that Warren's novel is also "noir," but it
may
> go beyond that genre. I think, personally, that
Lolita
> is basically a noir novel composed by a
genius.
>
> Patrick
> --- Richard Moore <moorich@...>
wrote:
>
> > My apologies for being absent from this dialog
for
> > days at a time.
> > It has been many years since I read LOLITA
and
> > Cain's BUTTERFLY--
> > long enough that I don't feel comfortable
being
> > hard-over on this.
> > My memory is that BUTTERFLY was more noir
or
> > near-noir than LOLITA.
> > I do not believe that every novel wherein the
male
> > lead is lured to
> > his doom by a female (regardless of age) is
noir.
> >
> > Jailbait novels were relatively common in the
first
> > few decades of
> > paperbacks. Some, such as several by Gil
Brewer,
> > were noir. Many
> > others were backwoods comedy romps trying to
catch
> > the Tobacco Road
> > audience and I wouldn't consider them noir
novels.
> >
> > Perhaps my problem is that I have trouble
labeling a
> > funny novel
> > Noir. As I recall it, LOLITA is a very funny
novel.
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, I do believe a novel can be
both
> > hardboiled and
> > funny.
> >
> > Just today I began reading a very funny novel
I
> > learned about
> > through Keith Roberts' memoir (of sorts)
LEMADY.
> > The book is DON'T
> > POINT THAT THING AT ME by Kyril Bonfiglioli and
it
> > manages to be
> > both tough and very, very funny.
> >
> > Richard Moore
> >
> > --- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "E. Borgers"
> > <webeurop@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree with Patrick.
> > > Especially for "Buttefly" which is really
noir.
> > > Confusion here is that a lot of the
"speakers"
> > consider noir as
> > as sub-genre or a sub-sub-genre, of
mystery/crime
> > lit. It's not.
> > > Noir is wider than mystrery lit, and as
I
> > advocated it here many
> > times, HB is just one of the sub-genre it
included.
> > > Noir covers parts of gen lit,
mystery,
> > humor...the list is long.
> > >
> > > A little bit as in the mathematical theory
of
> > sets: it contains
> > sub-sets and intersects with other sets (genres
or
> > type of lit) than
> > mystery/crime.
> > >
> > > Speaking of the origins, archaic forms,
noir and
> > mystery/crime
> > lived togheter and influenced one another all
along
> > the way.
> > > Even starting with the Bible...
> > >
> > > E.Borgers
> > > POLAR NOIR
> > > http://www.geocities.com/polarnoir
> > >
> > >
> > > Patrick King <abrasax93@> a 飲it
:
> > > Thanks for your response, but why
don't
> > you consider
> > > Lolita inparticular, and nymphette novels
in
> > general,
> > > noir novels? What other genre do they fall
under?
> > It's
> > > the same problem that involves many other
noir
> > novels:
> > > the anti-hero falling under the sway of a
female,
> > > leading to his downfall. The only real
difference
> > is
> > > that the female is under 18-years-old,
adding
> > another
> > > demention to the level of obsession and to
the
> > > darkness of the story. Cain's Butterfly
is
> > essentially
> > > this same problem, isn't it? Would you
not
> > consider
> > > Butterfly a noir novel?
> > >
> > > Patrick King
> > > --- Richard Moore <moorich@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > I admire Nobokov's LOLITA but do not
consider it
> > a
> > > > noir novel.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 04 Feb 2007 EST