Okay, that did it. I'm de-lurking. I know this post appeared
last November, but it Sets Me Off.
dave <
birdlives@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'm sorry to git down, but you sound like one
ignorant
> motherfucker. To call Miles overrated is to know
nothing
> about jazz. I don't know how he "damaged"
Coltrane's
career,
> either. Cecil Taylor holds no candle, and Ornette
does
show
> genius, but he also shows no respect, by playing
trumpet
and
> violin, without ever taking a lesson. Miles talks
alot
about
> how he dug Ornette, btw.
The ignorance appears to be yours. You appear to be
incredibly ignorant of Cecil Taylor's work, and that nonsense
about "Ornette does show genius, but he also shows no
respect, by playing trumpet and violin, without ever taking a
lesson" doesn't even make grammatical sense, much less any
other kind.
> Miles is almost single handedly responsible for
John
Lewis'
> career. Not to mention how close he was to Gil
Evans, the
> one white man he loved. (And did countless albums
with.)
His
> "Birth Of the Cool" sides invented third stream
in
1948-49!
> Everything afterwards came outta those
sides.
1. You are also incredibly ignorant about John Lewis' career
-- which, if he owes anything to anyone outside the MJQ (Milt
Jackson, in other words), he owes to Dizzy Gillespie, in
whose band he first played and in which he met the fellow
members of what was originally the Milt Jackson Quartet. I
don't think Lewis's career was advanced much, if at all, by
Miles, and I wonder how you can make such a preposterous
claim.
2. Miles owes more to Lewis (and Evans) than they do to him
for the "Birth of the Cool" sides. Davis fronted the group,
but it met in Gil Evans' appartment and was a composers'
co-op. As for "invent[ing] third stream in 1948-49," more
ignorance. I guess you never heard the early works of Robert
Graettinger, much less the mid- and late-'40s Claude
Thornhill Orchestra (for whom Gil Evans and George Russell
wrote arrangements) -- the direct precursor of the "Davis"
Nontet.
3. Davis didn't do "countless albums" with Gil Evans. There
were exactly *4* Columbia albums.
> Likewise, Miles invented "fusion" in the sixties
Why?
> Because he felt music should be alive, and not
exist
inside
> some mausoleum. Yeah, "jazz" was dead, then. But
Miles was
> totally into Sly and the Family Stone, and he was
chasing
> Sly throughout this period. Every great jazz
musician of
> this late stage apprenticed with Miles -- Keith
Jarrett,
> John McLaughlin, Chick Corea ... the list is
endless.
So Davis was "chasing" another junkie, eh? But jazz was
*far* from dead during Miles' fusion period. Look at the
careers of Charles Mingus and Sun Ra in that period, just for
starters.
> I'm sorry, but I will brook no criticism of Miles.
No
matter
> what Dizzy said. Miles always respected and loved
Dizzy,
but
> I saw them all in the last years, and Dizzy's
music,
almost
> always sucked. Miles, at least, had some moments.
But in
the
> sixties, and early seventies -- those Miles sides
are ...
> total motherfuckers.
To each his own, but you've placed Davis on a pedestal and
made yourself just another guy who bought the hype and helped
make Davis the most overrated (and underachieving) jazz
musician of his era.
Back to lurking....
--Ted White
-- # To unsubscribe from the regular list, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to # majordomo@icomm.ca. This will not work for the digest version. # The web pages for the list are at http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/ .
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 09 Jan 2002 EST