RARA-AVIS: Re: Amazon.com Top 50 Hard-Boiled

Kevin Smith (kvnsmith@colba.net)
Sun, 7 Jun 1998 13:52:47 -0500 >Can someone please define hardboiled from the list's perspective? Sue
>Grafton's Kinsey Milhone is great but I wouldn't've called her hardboiled,
>largely because she's so self-deprecating and introspective.

>It was the inclusion of her work that got me too ... definitely amongst the
>private eye greats, but not truly hard-boiled.

We've never really been able to work out a real definition. Like you said,
the Amazon list is based on sales, and I guess they have to include Grafton
somewhere. I think, though, someone can be self-deprecating and
introspective, and still be hardboiled. Macdonald's Archer, Pronzini's
Nameless and Greenleaf's Tanner come to mind, and I'm sure there's lots
others. Does this mean they're not hardboiled? (As opposed to noir, which
is something very different).

I think if Kinsey were a man, it might be easier for some of you to
consider her hardboiled. I like Millhone too, and part of the reason is
that she's not quite the hardboiled dame she thinks she is, but she's
always a bit tougher than the reader thinks she is.

But the whole hardboiled thing is a matter of attitude, anyway. You can
have some very hardboiled characters in a pretty genteel book (there's a
Pronzini locked room book I seem to remember), and you can have some pretty
wimpy types in some very nasty, hardboiled scenarios. Both types of books
could be considered hardboiled, or not, depending on where you draw the
line.

Of course, then there's the purists who think everything past Mike Hammer
(or Marlowe, or Spade, or Jim Thompson, orJohn Carroll Daly, or whoever) is
for sissies.

So, the question is, who are some hardboiled female private eyes? Two that
spring to mind immediately are Lee McGraw's Madge Hatchett and Max Allan
Collins' and Terry Beatty's Ms. Tree. Any others?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Smith
The Thrilling Detective Web Site
http://www.colba.net/~kvnsmith/thrillingdetective/

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