There has been much discussion in this thread to date, and I think it's unnecessary to list all the 'non-urban' titles that have been listed so far --- though a couple of titles to add might be Hammett's short story, 'The Golden Horsehoe', where most of the action is set out of San Francisco, in Tijuana; and also 'Nightmare Town', which takes place in a small desert town called Izzard. But there seems to be a consensus that many things that contribute to whether a story is 'hard boiled' or not do not need to be present---that is to say, 'urban location' can be an element of 'hardboiled', but the absense/presence of this element is not sufficent to include/exclude a particular narrative from the category 'hardboiled'. This though is a pretty standard idea about genre (which derives, I believe, from Todorov): there may be certain generic elements present in a particular example of a given genre, but the presence/absence of these as individual elements does not determine whether a particular text is or is not of a given genre. Moreover, genre is a dynamic category: if it weren't, all genres would be static and unchanging. This is probably useful in thinking about hardboled: it is a dynamic which is not determined by the inclusion or exclusion of particular aspects, but rather by the way in which *some* of a *possible group* of aspects are combined. [Anyone know what, if anything, Cawelti has to say on this? --- maybe someone should mail him the 'flyer' for thelist ;-)] The urban setting may be thought of as being one possible element in hard-boiled writing. It is (almost?) de-rigeur though in *film noir*. And there has been a tendency to use the terms 'noir' and 'hard boiled' almost interchangably. Perhaps there is a distinction to be made between the two, and this may be something we should now turn our attention to. BTW, does anyone recall the quote --- I think it was Malcolm McLaren when he was manager of The New York Dolls, so that must make it early-mid 1970s --- 'Rock and Roll is an attitude'. I think this is useful in thinking about hardboiled: there is 'an attitude' in hardboiled writing which does not depend upon devices such as setting, narrator etc. Eddie Duggan ---------------------------------------------- Does anyone know of a toyshop that can send/sell me a large Buzz Lightyear or a Woody? (All the UK shops are out of stock until March!) If you can let me have any details (shop name, phone number), please communicate through private email. Thanks. --------------------------------------------- - # RARA-AVIS: To unsubscribe, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" # to majordomo@icomm.ca