Mark:
I know I'm repeating myself here, but for me the defining characteristic of noir is that it is not just the failure of redemption but the complete absence and pointlessness of redemption. The desire for or the attempt to achieve redemption and failing to do so, a "cautionary tale" as you put it, is tragedy.
The philosophy of noir is essentially existential, which is why The Stranger fits so snuggly into the genre (and from there into post-modernism.) But before the moaning and handringing over the existentialism's lack of values begins, I'll just add that (again, speaking for myself) significant chunks of Christian instruction are existential. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" is experiential advice, as opposed to the supernatural "treat others well because god says so," or "treat others badly and you'll burn in hell." Of course, these concepts are not exclusively Christian either.
Not that we should debate religion on RARA. I'm just suggesting that redemption is more about doing the right thing morally, while not screwing people over because you might at some point expect the same thing back, is simply practical.
In The Maltese Falcon, Spade actively rejects love. He will not allow his feelings for Brigid to divert him from saving his business or being fitted for Archer's murder. Neither is he moved by the artistry/antiquity of the Falcon itself or the declaration that it is the stuff "dreams are made of". These are all romantic notions of spiritual transcendence, but if Spade does the right thing it is for entirely practical reasons. Chandler's idea of detectives as 20th Century white knights, however, lone men of virtue on the mean streets of the modern world saving fair damsels from gangsters and pornographers, may be hardboiled, but is not noir.
So sayeth I,
Kerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sullivan
To: rara-avis
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: Re: Random Notes On Redemption
Just a question that popped into my head about redemption:
Do characters have to be redeemed for a book to have a "quality of redemption"? Is it enough to have a book deal with characters who struggle with or strive for redemption? Even if a character openly rejects redemption or even its possibility, can't the book engage the idea? I guess what I'm asking is, can't a book in which characters fail to attain it still engage issues of redemption? Can't a book that shows a character making misstep after misstep away from "the light" act as a cautionary tale? Or can't there be a sense of "there but for the grace of God go I"? I haven't really thought this through, just tossing out some random thoughts, but it just occurs to me that redemption could be a structuring absence in noir.
Mark
> To: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com
> From: prosperena@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 22:50:12 +0000
> Subject: RARA-AVIS: Re: Random Notes On Redemtion
>
> James, your thoughts on this question are timely as they are related to the recent posts on the origin of Chandler's "mean streets."
>
> The sentences immediately preceding the "But down these mean streets a man must go..." passage in "The Simple Art of Murder" are: "In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man."
>
> We can see Chandler wrestled with this issue in his fiction as he tried to balance hard-boiled elements with that certain "quality of redemption."
>
> This quality of redemption is important to me when I read hard-boiled and noir fiction but I wouldn't care to argue with other readers for whom it is not important. But I think Chandler's contention can be used to bolster arguments with those who say that hard-boiled/noir fiction is nothing but "genre junk."
>
> Kari E. Johnson
>
>
>
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