Speaking of definitions, I see www.m-w.com has "crime fiction
featuring hard-boiled cynical characters and bleak sleazy
settings".
Which is likely the kind of definition that leads people to
speak of
"medieval noir" etc.
Stephen Burridge
On 5/19/07, Jeff Vorzimmer <
jvorzimmer@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > My definition is pretty narrow. If there's no
downward spiral too
> hell,
> > if there's no psychic damage and sense of doom,
it's not noir. Quoting
> > Eddie Muller's definition of noir (as taken
from Ken Bruen's foreward
> > for a new edition of Miami Purity), "starts bad
and gets worse." That's
> > noir. At least that's my narrow definiton. And
very little of what's
> > called noir today has a resemblance to noir (at
least to me). Russell
> > Hill's "Robbie's Wife" is noir, Seymour
Shubin's "Anyone's My Name" is
> > noir (yeah, okay, it was written 50 years ago,
but we've been
> > discussing it recently)
>
> I agree with this definition. WIth noir there is a
sense of doom hanging
> over the main character. From the first page of
Anyone's My Name, you know
>
> the character is doomed to the electric chair, so
much so that I can
> understand readers not finishing it.
>
> In noir fiction, the lives of the main characters
seem to spiral out of
> control, usually because of bad decisions compounded
by even more bad
> decisions. This is a hallmark of Charles Williams'
and Gil Brewer's novels
>
> for example and contemporary writers such as Jason.
You see the decisions
> the characters make and you cringe and you watch as
they loose complete
> control of their own lives.
>
> Even with someone like Spillane, whose stories don't
quite fit this mold,
> their is a sense with each Mike Hammer book, e.g.,
that this time Hammer
> is
> doomed. It's either Hammer or the bad guy. Of
course, Hammer always
> prevails.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
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