Nathan wrote: I once sat through the trial of a man who set
his children on fire because his new girlfriend didn't want
them around. He wanted his new girlfriend more than he wanted
his kids, so he lit a match while they slept and, viola!, no
more kids.That's not insane.That' s just selfish. He knew
what he was doing was wrong, but he did it anyway.
********* Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, it's selfish not to pass
the cranberry sauce. This man you describe is insane. I'm not
saying he shouldn't be executed for the sake of expedience,
but he's not sane, I don't care how logically he came off in
court. I encounter a lot of folks in district attorneys'
offices who don't want to call a spade a spade for fear
they'll lose the case.
"Winning" should not be part of their jobs. Their job should
be getting to the truth of the matter, not just convicting
people to clear the dockett. But that's
"Justice" for you! Unlike "evil" which frankly can be
attributed to not passing the cranberry sauce,
"insane" has real meaning. It's behaving in accordance with a
belief system that most people would deem unacceptable. Nail
biting, bed wetting, temper tantrums are indicators of mental
disturbance. When they escalate to eaves dropping, breaking
and entering, robbery, and murder, which they sometimes do,
the subject is insane. They have mental problems. By all
means lock them up, execute them if you don't mind throwing
the switch, but don't try to say that anyone might behave
like that. You have to be crazy to burn your children to
death. The fact that you don't see that as "crazy" is a
problem with your orientation, not with the fact of
crazy.
Patrick King
--- Nathan Cain <
IndieCrime@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Nathan, the term "evil" assumes metaphysics
which
> cannot be established empirically. People who
bandy
> about the word "evil" tend to be a little on
the
> mental edge, themselves, in my experience.
Because
> someone performs an act that is not of benefit
to
> you
> or your extended group does not make them
"evil,"
> however inconvenient their actions may have
proved
> to
> you. If they perform these acts based on
twisted
> logic, though, they are very likely insane.
<
>
>
> Not really. You can apply the same logic to
the
> term insane. Just because
> someone does something you don't like and comes
to
> the decision to do it
> through a process you don't understand doesn't
make
> them insane. Who gets to
> say whose logic is twisted? You? Are you
the
> official arbiter of empirical
> sanity?
>
> > When you say "Prisons are full of entirely
sane
> people," how do
> you know this? Do you vist prisions
frequently?<
>
> No, but I was, for a while, paid to attend
criminal
> court at least twice a
> week. I've sat through trials for
everything:
> Murder, rape, child
> molestation, drug dealing, armed robbery, you
name
> it I've seen it
> prosecuted. Didn't see a whole lot of crazy. A
lot
> of selfish, a lot of
> stupid, a lot of mean, but very little crazy. I
once
> sat through the trial
> of a man who set his children on fire because
his
> new girlfriend didn't want
> them around. He wanted his new girlfriend more
than
> he wanted his kids, so
> he lit a match while they slept and, viola!, no
more
> kids.That's not
> insane.That's just selfish. He knew what he
was
> doing was wrong, but
> he did it
> anyway.
> And most people who are in prison are in
for
> mundane things like selling
> dope or stealing. It's generally
economically
> motivated crime. Hard to call
> them crazy. For every serial killer there
are
> probably 500 murderers who
> killed for entirely mundane reasons. The
horrible
> truth about most crime is
> that it's boring.
>
> >When do you decide a person who's committed
murder
> is "perfectly
> sane?" Do you think Ilene Wournos was
"perfectly
> sane." If you do, see the Biography
Channel's
> Notorious episode about her with the actual
footage
> of
> her trial. What about Edward Kemper who
murdered
> co-eds in San Francisco before he killed his
mother,
> set her head on the mantle piece and put her
larynx
> down the garbage disposal? Or Alan Blackthorn
who
> had
> his ex-wife and the mother of his two
daughters
> murdered while she cared for her infant
quintuplets,
> leaving her butchered corpse for his daughter
to
> discover? The child, of course, knew
immediately
> who'd
> done it! When do you think someone's insane? How
bad
> does it have to get?<
>
> These people are not representative of most
killers.
> You can't draw any
> conclusions by looking at the sensational
crimes
> that end up making the true
> crime shows, and books. They don't tell you
anything
> about the reality of
> crime and punishment. You want that, go sit
through
> arraignments, probation
> revocation hearings and plea agreements. You'll
see
> the sort of people who
> end up in the system. They're not monsters,
even
> most of the killers. And,
> to bring it back around to crime fiction, here's
why
> I think Ripley isn't
> crazy: He goes to great lengths to get away with
his
> crimes. He's an
> exceptionally rational human being. He sees what
he
> wants and he goes for
> it, with no regard for the people who are in
his
> way. He does have plenty of
> regard, however, for the potential consequences
his
> actions could have for
> him. He can reason: He can say to himself, "I
killed
> X, now I must do Y to
> avoid detection." Anyone who can understand
the
> potential consequences of
> their actions isn't insane.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have
been
> removed]
>
>
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