Re: RARA-AVIS: can noir writers advocate social reform?

From: Patrick King ( abrasax93@yahoo.com)
Date: 26 Nov 2006


I'm sorry it seems a stretch to you. It seems like ordinary plot line analysis to me. If a character is not a symbol for human condition that many can relate to, why include him? All novels that make any impact at all are metaphors. There are millions of Dillons in the world and always have been. Dillon was the product of his background as all of Thompson's characters are. He is brutal because of the hopelessness of his circumstance. Even his nick name 'Dolly' implies he is not in control of his own actions. A Hell of a Woman is a very good example of circumstances that FBI profilers now call "stressors" and it was written, what, about 30 years before Roy Hazlewood coined the term? Perhaps I'm looking too deeply, but I'd bet that you're not looking deeply enough. Whether Jim Thompson meant the depth to be in his novels or not, it IS in there. And if you read his biography, Savage Art, he was a much more deliberate artist than the publishers of his books may indicate. James M. Cain was also very aware of the depth of characters he was writing about. Stylistically these writers may not have been up to Fitzgerald's standards, but for character, plot and metaphor they were miles ahead of him and by all accounts HE knew it!

Patrick King

--- Dave Zeltserman < dz@hardluckstories.com> wrote:

> Not at all the way I would characterize Hell of a
> Woman. The book is
> a fascinating study of a psychologically broken
> person.
> Frank "Dolly" Dillon is a character who is going to
> find a way to
> make the worse of any situation he ends up in. It's
> more of a
> struggle for self destruction--at least at the
> psychic level, than
> anything else. A hardluck guy if there ever was one.
> Sorry, your
> description for this one is more than a stretch..
>
> --Dave Z.
>
> --- In rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Patrick King
> <abrasax93@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Re: A Hell of a Woman, this is the story of a poor
> man
> > willing to do murder to get a keep a woman whom he
> > neither knows nor understands. It's his struggle
> for
> > wealth and status that drives him to his
> > ill-considered behavior. It doesn't get more
> political
> > than that!
> >
> > Patrick King
> > --- Dave Zeltserman <dz@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Killer Inside Me did have some pro union
> sentiment
> > > in it, and Swell-
> > > Looking Babe took a healthy swipe at the
> communist
> > > witch hunts going
> > > on, but I think it's kind a stretch to tie Hell
> of a
> > > Woman to any
> > > political agenda. Also, Patrick mentioned the
> > > Grifters not the
> > > Getaway, but at this point I'd have to reread
> The
> > > Grifters to state
> > > an opinion, although after previous readings I
> was
> > > never left with
> > > impression that it had any political agenda.
> > >
> > > --Dave Z.
> > >
> > > --- In rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> Robison
> > > <miker_zspider@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Patrick King wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You miss argueably the most important: Jim
> > > Thompson.
> > > > By all accounts Thompson definitely had a
> > > political
> > > > agenda. Note especially A Hell of a Woman, The
> > > > Grifters and The Killer Inside Me.
> > > >
> > > > ***********
> > > > I see nothing significantly political about
> The
> > > Killer
> > > > Inside Me. And his little allegory of
> capitalism
> > > in
> > > > The Getaway is compromised by the fact that
> there
> > > are
> > > > no other options for the characters.
> > > >
> > > > miker
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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>

 
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