Thank you for the definitions and the welcome to the group. I
like those definitions as well.
> Jim adds colloquial to
> the hardboiled definition because he sees it as
a
> class- or street-oriented genre, so although
James
> Bond and Sherlock Holmes may be tough as nails,
their
> somewhat aristocratic airs keep them out of
the
> hardboiled club.
Class or Street oriented genre. Yes definitely.
>
> Noir is more complex, I think. Some people on
the
> list think it goes beyond just atmosphere, and
must
> relate to the protagonist's state of mind, with
fear
> and desperation being on the short list.
I can see that. To tell you the truth, some might not agree
with this but, I use Jason Starr and Michael Ledwidge as a
litmus test when I try to decide if a novel is noir.
> Some see
> noir as an extension of the pessimistic determinism
in
> the early writings of American naturalists such
as
> Jack London and Stephen Crane, and that the
noir
> protagonist is doomed from the beginning.
Personally I think that Starr writes this type of character
better than anyone else I've ever read.
>
> It's also fairly well accepted that the two genres
are
> not mutually exclusive of one another, so a book
can
> be both hardboiled and noir. In my experience,
only
> rarely is noir divorced from hardboiled.
>
> miker
You're absolutely right. I really appreciate the time you
took to respond to my post.
Thank you very much.
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