Al,
Re your comments below:
> Don't get hung up on Jim's definition, Steve.
Some
> of us have our own
> definitions. In my case, I don't see how you
can
> separate noir from
> character.
You separate character from noir by looking at the stories
that were originally classified as noir, and the movies that
were originally classified as noir, seeing what they had in
common, and concluding that those common elements must be the
defining elements.
Since, under Duhamel's (the guy who coined the term)umbrella
, "noir" spreads pretty wide, covering Hammett and Chandler
as well as Cain and Woolrich, it follows that the common
elements have to be something that can include the
hard-boiled heroics of Chandler/Hammett, the tragic
fatefulness of Cain, and the claustrophobic paranoia of
Woolrich.
In film (and by extension, in the books the films derive
from) noir's also been applied (and applied correctly, in my
view) to semi-documentary cop films like NAKED CITY and HE
WALKED BY NIGHT, gangster films like JOHNNY EAGER and THE
ASPHALT JUNGLE, and even romantic suspense films, like LAURA
and THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE.
What do they all have in common? A dark, sinister
atmosphere.
Conclusion: that must be what defines the style. Not
character. Not worldview. Not urban settings. Just a dark,
sinister, and, yes, if you want to call it that, a "gothic"
atmosphere.
> In noir, the sinister element comes from
> the character's
> perception of the world (a worldview which is
often
> twisted and paranoid --
> 'noirotic', if you will).
No, it comes from the author's (or filmmaker's) ability to
set mood.
> And Jim's definition
> doesn't take into account the
> mortality of the protagonist, which is
hugely
> important in (and possibly
> even fundamental to) noir (as Russell James
once
> pointed out). I see the
> difference between hardboiled and noir in
the
> reaction to events. For
> example, when a hardboiled character is shot
it
> makes him angry and acts as
> a spur to further acts of toughness; when a
noir
> character's shot he spends
> the rest of the book dying (if he's shot in
the
> foot, he'll prod and poke
> and eventually the wound will become infected).
To
> respond to your original
> post, Steve, I'd agree that Chandler's
hardboiled,
> but I see Marlowe
> operating in a hardboiled (not noir)
world.
My definition doesn't take morality into account because
because the morality of the protagonist isn't what sets the
mood for the story.
A heroic, ethical character can exist in a dark, sinister
atmosphere, so it follows that a character's heroism and
ethics must not be a bar to a dark, sinister atmosphere. And,
since a dark, sinister atmosphere is the only common element,
and, consequently, the defining element, of noir, it follows
that the character's heroism and ethics aren't a bar to
story's being noir.
Similarly a tough, colloquial (that is to say, a hard-boiled)
attitude is not a bar to a dark, sinister atmosphere, so, it
also follows that being hard-boiled and being noir are not
mutually exclusive.
Hence, the ethical, tough, and colloquial Marlowe is
hard-boiled and exists in a noir world.
JIM DOHERTY
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