--- JIM DOHERTY <
jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Doug,
>
> Re your comment below:
>
> > I think the book is essentially a horror
story,
> and
> > is
> > best appreciated in those terms. (The PI plot
is
> > surface gloss). My main problem with
the
> esteemable
> > Mr. Doherty's definition of "noir" is that it
lets
> > in
> > a lot of horror stories like FALLING
ANGEL.
>
> Since a lot of horror stories have crime
story
> elements (the Edgar-nominated FALLING ANGEL being
a
> good example; others include TV shows like
FOREVER
> KNIGHT and X-FILES) and a lot of crime stories
often
> employ horror story elements (remember the
Contintal
> Op's punch-up with a ghost in THE DAIN CURSE),
my
> definition's being inclusive seems to me to be
an
> advantage rather than a an argument against
it.
>
> JIM DOHERTY
>
Hey, fair enough: for my own part, though, any definition
that groups together SALEMS LOT and TAPPING THE SOURCE
doesn't seem very useful to me.
I think any use of supernatural elements by definition rules
a work out of the hardboiled or noir camps. I think the basic
starting point for both is realism. FALLING ANGEL may well
have been nominated for an Edgar (I think it was a mistake if
it was), but the movie was considered straight horror, and
properly so.
I think your criteria of a forboding atmosphere
(paraphrasing) is necessary, then, but not sufficient.
There are interesting cases of overlap -- I'm far less
doctrinare about these sorts of things than I used to be,
definitions can only encompass so much. (I remember FOREVER
KNIGHT, it was a great schlocky show.) The most obvious one
is Cornell Woolrich, who often seems to be more appreciated
by sf/dark fantasy/horror writers like Barry Malzburg or
Harlan Ellison than crime writers: I'm not a big fan of him
myself, but he does seem to have more in common with Ray
Bradbury than, say, David Goodis.
doug
Just finished: Edward Anderson's THIEVES LIKE US, a very fine
book.
===== Doug Bassett
dj_bassett@yahoo.com
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