After taking a few days to mull this discussion over, I'd
like to weigh in here as a fan of both Hammett and
Hemingway:
At 03:38 PM 11/6/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Jack,
>
>Re your comments below:
>
> > I think that "Red Harvest," except for
the
> > opening, is pretty ugly stuff in both a plot
and
> > style. (OK it was made from a bunch of
novellas.
> > Hammett should have hooked them together
better.)
>
>Actually, I think Hammett concealed the seams
very
>well, particularly compared with the other two
OP
>novels, BLOOD MONEY and THE DAIN CURSE. Perhaps
not
>quite as well-concealed as THE GLASS KEY, but I
found
>few seams showing. And when I did find them it
was
>because I was looking for them.
>
I have to agree with Jim, here, except for the fact that I
haven't read
"Blood Money".
> > The style is more Hemingway parody than
good
> > Hammett. It's choppy and not
conversational.
>
>Again, I disagree. Moreover, Hammett's style for
the
>Op series, which began in 1922, developed
separately
>from Hemingway's. If anything, I think a case
could
>be made that it was Hemingway who was influenced
by
>Hammett rather than the reverse. I was riveted by
the
>style the first time I read it and have been
again
>with every re-reading.
Hemingway was in Paris in the early 20's, borrowing books
(and sometimes money) from Sylvia Beach's Shakespeare and
Company. At this point, according to sources like "A Moveable
Feast" Hemingway was reading mostly Russian writers like
Turgenev, and critics like the indomitable Harold Bloom cite
a clear influence on him by such early "realist" writers. I
doubt Hemingway read much Hammett during this formative
period in his work.
> > "The Malese Falcon" is the
> > best private-eye novel ever.)
>
>No argument there, but RED HARVEST is easily
his
>second-best work, and, if not THE greatest
like
>FALCON, ONE of the greatest private eye novels
ever.
Agreed again, although personally I think that "The Big
Sleep" is the greatest private-eye novel ever.
>Moreover, a case could be made that it was at least
as
>influential, perhaps more influential than
FALCON.
>Certainly, the first person narration of HARVEST
is
>far more common than the rigorously
objective
>third-person mode of FALCON. And the
"town-tamer"
>story is one of the most common plots, certainly
as
>common as the "fabled quest object" plot or
the
>"hero's lover is the killer" plot that are
both
>generally attributed to FALCON, in private
eye
>fiction.
Good points all.
Brian
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