i identify completely with your comment about caring about
the characters. character empathy is important in my
enjoyment of a book. it was impossible for me to care about
anybody in red harvest. character development? none that i
could see. i kept hoping for some insight into why op felt
the way he did. he never came off as anything but a shallow
thug like most of the others, some tough... some
tougher.
the maltese falcon was better. interaction between the
players was more intricate... more subtle. i understand the
glass key is his best. haven't read it yet.
miker
-----Original Message----- From:
owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca [mailto:
owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca]On Behalf Of Carrie Pruett Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:28 PM To:
rara-avis@icomm.ca Subject: RARA-AVIS: "Red Harvest" and
characterization
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:25:33 -0800
(PST)
>From: JIM DOHERTY <
jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: bloated
characterizations?
>
>
>I think you're misreading Hammett if you regard
his
>characters as "thumbnail sketches." It's
precisely
>because he's able to so completely portray a
character
>without sacrificing his economical style that is
a
>testament to his skill. The others are not
attempting
>to write in such a spare style.
I used the "thumbnail" phrase referring back to an earlier
post. There I said (or meant to say, if it didn't actually
come through) that Hammett's style (in "Red Harvest"
specifically) is to introduce a character, paint a very
effective portrait of him or her when introduced and then,
with a few exceptions, leave the character be. All of the
characters besides the Op are totally static and basically
flat. They don't change and only in a few instances does the
progress of the story reveal anything new about them. There's
nothing wrong or bad about this, but it is contrary to the
expectations of most of today's readers.
>Whether or not they'd
>be able to if they tried is a question I can't
answer,
>but I'm damned sure that Hammett could've written,
and
>write well, in a more expansive style, if he's
chosen
>to.
Of course he could, he does it in Falcon with the complex
relationship between Spade and Brigid (and Spade and Effie
for that matter, probably a few others I can think of). The
issue is not whether Hammett could have written Red Harvest
in a different way than he wrote it but whether there is a
middle ground between spare and bloated.
and Juri wrote:
>
>I was kidding, at least mildly. But they should read
more Hammett and
>stuff like that, because the deep characterizations
are not the only
>thing in the world. I've been asking myself (and
Rara-avians also)
>whether the deep thoughts and other stuff make crime
literature more
>literature. I don't think so. The style can be ripe
and full even though
>the characters are not.
But it's a matter of taste. Plot and style can be interesting
but ultimately I very rarely give a rip about a book if I
don't care about the characters. I don't read mystery/crime
novels for the "puzzle" or the plot or even the style, though
they can be a bonus. I *like* styles and settings in crime
novels, and I like the HB books I like because they combine
these elements with full, interesting characterizations. My
interests in
"serious" literature are similar, as for instance I don't
give a rip for Gabriel Garcia-Marquez because however much
style and philosophy there is in the books, his characters
don't engage me.
>(And I should add that there is no book
>where interesting people make a good book without
good style and/or
>interesting view of the world.)
I'm not talking about what makes a "good" book (whatever that
means) but an enjoyable one. In which case I'll take the
contrary position that style and world-view hold very little
interest for me in the absence of good characters.
>
>(Haven't yet read any Connelly, but it
>seems that his books are huge, so they *might* be
bloated.)
"Darkness more than night" definitely. And I can think of a
few places he goes over the top with angst, but overall the
depth of his characterization definitely pays off without
sacrificing plot or action. ("Angels Flight" having perhaps
the best convergence of plotting, characterization, and
social commentary I've encountered in a contemporary novel,
genre or otherwise).
But I'm more
>of a Leonardist: dialogue reveals more than deep
thoughts and the action
>takes place in a clearly defined context, milieu and
time, and therefore
>they tell us more than deep thoughts and
characterizations.
I still haven't been able to warm to Leonard; I've taken a
few brief stabs
(Get Shorty, Cat Chaser) and given up. I'm still trying, I've
got Touch on my nightstand and another one word title I've
forgotten is next up on my audio-list.
>
>I started Crais's "Demolition Angel" couple of nights
ago. It's at least
>okay and it's not bloated, but I don't know what it
adds up to to have
>the lead character dwelled in personal tragedy (the
blowing off of his
>lover and herself). But a question: this is my first
Crais and first to
>one translated in Finnish. How does it compare to
Elvis Cole books?
Hmm, Demolition Angel is one I might say IS on the bloated
side in terms of dwelling on the character's past trauma.
This is the kind of book you usually get way down the road in
a series when the author thinks "I'm out of things for Joe
Bob to do, let's put him in therapy!" I like the Elvis books
better; "L.A. Requiem" has moments of brilliance though
definitely also suffers from some bloating (totally
superfluous childhood flashbacks for one of the major
characters). I like the fast-paced early books better; start
with "The Monkey's Raincoat" if you can. My favorite is the
2nd in the series, "Stalking the Angel" which I found every
bit as "deep" as LA Requiem without being so weighed down
with its own importance. I do like all the books, though, and
I'll try Hostage eventually.
Carrie
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