I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Which
is fine.
--- Mario Taboada <
matrxtech@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <<On the other hand, I've always
considered
> Bukowski's
> work to be hb, though his protagonists (for the
most
> part) wouldn't hurt a fly.>>
>
> If the characters are utter losers, it's more
likely
> to be noir than
> hardboiled.
Ah, but there's not much of that kind of doomy "the world is
crushing me, I am a fly in the ointment of life" vibe in
Bukowski's work. Alot of it is oddly optimistic, in
fact.
>
> As to a HB book without HB characters, I
can't
> conceive of such a thing. I
> think it doesn't exist, though I'm open to
hearing
> of some examples.
Another example, to my mind, of a non-hb character in a hb
book: the protag. in Burrough's JUNKY.
>
> Now to Kent Anderson's "literary" style. There's
no
> rule that excludes
> stylistic sophistication and experimentation
from
> genre literature. It's not
> that common, but neither is it so rare
(think
> Willeford, Ellroy, Lansdale or
> Higgins, names frequently mentioned in this
very
> forum).
Haven't read enough Ellroy to judge. The only Lansdale hb
novel I've read, SAVAGE SEASON, wouldn't have been too out of
place as part of the Gold Medal line. Although Higgins had, I
think, literary pretensions with FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE, the
actual book is pretty close to the classic hb style -- it's
as if he entered the party through the back door (or at least
is just loitering outside). Yes on Willeford.
Personally, I like to distinguish between tough-minded books
like SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL or James Jones's THIN RED LINE
and hb books. For me, an important part of "hardboiled" is
the classic Hemingway-derived style, and so, for me, books
that are using sophisticated literary techniques are not
hardboiled books. Doesn't mean that they're bad books -- just
different.
I think Kent Anderson's follow-up, NIGHT DOGS, is a
hardboiled book -- and a damn good one, too.
Of course, all of that is just my opinion.
doug
===== Doug Bassett
dj_bassett@yahoo.com
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