"I'm not sure that there has to be a *detective figure* in
order to
qualify a text as hard boiled
[:flame suit off]
"FWIW, however, in Cain's _TPART_, there is an investigating
agent, and
of course Frank and Cora are under investigation. However,
there's no
murder in Cain's _Mildred Pierce_, so, following the chain of
logic
implied by Bill H.'s post, Cain's _MP_ wouldn't be
hardboiled, while the
film would be...? [on the grounds that there is a detective
who
investigates MP--the film unfolds as a series of flashbacks
while she is
being questioned]. "
After two cups of coffee, but still not fully awake, it seems
to me that ED
is disagreeing with the definitions that were posted. A key
distinction
between "hardboiled" and "noir" in the definitions [which I
think are good
ones] has to do with what kind of character is the
*protagonist* and what
kind of *plot* that person is involved in. So let me quote
definition
snippets on protagonists and plots:
>Hardboiled:
> - involves a detective, private investigator,
reporter or somenoe
> similar as the protagonist in a criminal
investigation
>
>Noir:
> - features criminals or victims as protagonists,
people who can't
> control themselves (psychologically) or, finally,
what happens to
> them. [snip]
The protagonist is the chief character or characters, and the
plot centers
on the protagonist(s)--what he/she/they do and is done to
him/her/them.
[This could get old fast.] Of course, hardboiled plots of
investigation
(and perhaps revenge) may have sympathetic criminals and
victims, but they
are not the protagonists unless they are driving the plot of
investigation
(are investigators); similarly noir plots will have
investigators coming
after the protagonists.
Hence, my questioning of where Cain "fits" is based on the
kinds of
protagonists featured in his novels.
Hope this makes sense. I need another cup...or a nap.
Bill Hagen
<billha@ionet.net>
#
# To unsubscribe, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
majordomo@icomm.ca.
# The web pages for the list are at http://www.vex.net/~buff/rara-avis/.