Wow! I suspect that we're being too sombre and intellectual in trying to define "hardboiled." The term first seems to have been used in the pulp era, and it was equivalent simply to "tough." and, as one of you said, it almost always was an adjective modifying "detective." Sometimes it was stretched to cover gangsters. I suppose I'm a lonely voice in thinking that "tough" is enough. I mentioned in a previous communication that the publishing company my wife and I run, Crippen & Landru. We have a new, very non-hardboiled (or tough or noir) book, MY MOTHER, THE DETECTIVE, just published. Check our web site: http://www.avalon.net/~scott/cl/ We have already published two private-eye collections, Marcia Muller's THE McCONE FILES and Bill Pronzini's SPADEWORK, and have scheduled collections by Ed Gorman and Michael Collins, which come close to hardboiled (and Ed's is a bit noir-ish). What I'd really like to do is publish a collection by a great pulp hardboiled writer, say Roaul Whitfield, but the problem is finding enough people willing to shell out money for it. Any advice? Doug Greene - # RARA-AVIS: To unsubscribe, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" # to majordomo@icomm.ca