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Re: RARA-AVIS: Re:What is hardboiled? (long) 

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 LoLehmann@aol.com wrote:

:   Bill's long defintion was right on the mark. Hard-boiled is more a
: style than a (sub-)genre in itself. I must confess that I'm a little
: unclear on english sub-genre names (crime fiction, detective
: fiction,... - though it seems self-explanatory enough!). In France,
: the whole mystery genre is called "policier" or "polar", and there
: are no specific french terms for the sub-genres.

Are the Nestor Burma mysteries popular over there?  They were
translated and printed over in North America recently.  I really liked
them - Burma's a great character and they give a nice sense of what
Paris used to be like.  (They're written by Leo Malet, for those who
don't know.) I think they're hardboiled, but in a French way.  

: Do you make a difference between "noir" and hard-boiled ? Goodis and
: Thompson are "noir", but are they hard-boiled?

I think noir is usually hardboiled, but hardboiled doesn't have to be
noir.  Film noir has certain trademarks and you could fill them
without being hardboiled.  _Lady from Shanghai_ and _Touch of Evil_,
the classic Orson Welles movies, are examples of this.  I think they'd
qualify as noir.  _Shoot the Piano Player_, book and movie, don't seem
too hardboiled to me.

As I said, I'm interested in seeing if we could work out a definition
of "hardboiled," but maybe it's impossible?  Maybe be all have an idea
in our heads but trying to define it precisely is impossible.  I know
"science fiction" has that problem.  Or, as whoever it was said about
pornography, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

I'm working my way through typing in a list of classic hardboiled
books that appears in _Hardboiled America_.  I'll let you know when
it's done and it may get some ideas going.

: PS: Why "Rara-Avis" ?

It's what Caspar Gutman calls the falcon in _The Maltese Falcon_.
I'll try to track down the exact quote and put it in the welcoming
message.  It was Eddie Duggan's suggestion, and I liked it.  It's a
little mysterious, and meaningful - better than
hardboiled-fiction@icomm.ca, I though.

My P.S.: Has anyone read Haruki Murakami's _Hardboiled Wonderland and
the End of the World_?

Bill
-- 
William Denton : buff@vex.net     <-- Please note new address.
Toronto, Canada                   <-- I'm not at io.org any more.
http://www.vex.net/~buff/         Caveat lector.

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